The U.S. Carbine Caliber .30

U.S. Army Ordnance Serial Number Assignments

The West Hurley pistols were as indicated above, less than nicely made firearms, however, the current Kahr owned Auto Ordnance pistols are every bit the match of their competition. Your pistol unfortunately appears to be the former I would peddle it and buy a new 1911 of your choice. For Tom only: These two are presentation or commemorative guns 5) Mauser model 1898, broom handle 9mm sn #836092 6) Auto ordnance mod 1911A1.45 auto. Navy comm issue. Sn # AOC70147 I will send photos read more.

Serial Number Tables Models M1, M1A1, M2 By Prime Contractor Table A Numerical Order Table B Subcontracted Receivers Table C Leftover Receivers used by Winchester Table D Transferred Receivers Table E Duplicated Serial Numbers Table F Irwin-Pedersen, Grand Rapids, & Saginaw Table G Inland Mfg - Engineering & Presentation Gifts Table H 8 Million Serial Numbers Table I Model T3 T3 Model T4 T4 Understanding Serial Numbers - Understanding Dates of Manufacture Dating a carbine by its serial number alone is difficult and not always accurate given the circumstances inherent with manufacturing and the logistics situation during the time the carbines were manufactured. Some people estimate a carbine's date of manufacture by adding the quantities manufactured month to month to the assigned serial number blocks. This is not an accurate means of estimating the date the carbine was finally assembled or when it passed its final inspection. Serial number blocks were assigned by the Ordnance Department on an as needed basis, generally in response to the awarding of a contract to a given manufacturer. Think of each serial number block as a separate contract. Contracts had a completion date but there was no requirement for completing one contract before starting another. There was no requirement as to using the serial numbers in order. A few manufacturers used some serial number blocks out of order. Some of these blocks were split up and used before or after other blocks. Some manufacturers used more than one block in the same time frame. A few of the manufacturers used subcontractors to manufacture their receivers. One manufacturer separated out smaller blocks of serial numbers for use by subcontractors who would use these serial numbers concurrent to receivers being made by the prime contractor and/or other subcontractors assigned lower or higher serial number blocks. The serial number was placed on the carbine receiver during the manufacturing process of the receiver, not when the carbine was finally assembled. The decision for which receivers would be used for the U.S. Carbine Models M1 or M1A1, and some of the M2's, were made well after the receiver was completed as all of these models used the same receiver. Serial numbered receivers that failed to pass inspection were set aside as rejects if the defect(s) could not be brought up to minimum standards. As solutions to old problems were learned, some of the same receivers were brought back online and completed (i.e. Inland receivers initially rejected because of an off spec deep hole drilled for the recoil spring and guide, later recovered and altered to use a detachable main spring housing). If a receiver was scrapped and not used, its serial number may or may not have been reused. No documentation from Ordnance, or any of the prime contractors, has been found that indicates the date and serial number of carbines as they were assembled or when they passed final inspection. Given the high volume of production, receivers were generally assembled as part of a carbine within a few months after the receiver was serial numbered. Barrels were a critical component in the production lines. If inventory ran out it could shut down production. Four of the prime contractors did not have the ability to manufacture barrels. The ebb and flow of mass production created parts surpluses and shortages for all the prime contractors, barrels included. Shortages were common until Ordnance arranged for additional barrel manufacturers. During the first half of production the barrels were often mounted on a receiver within 1-2 months of when the barrel was made. If a receiver has its original barrel and the barrel includes a date, it may provide a general idea of when the barrel was attached to the receiver. As time goes on more and more carbines are having parts replaced. Parts wear out, carbines are disassembled for the sale of the parts individually. Carbines have been, and still are, rebuilt from spare parts. Many people have reconstructed many carbines with what they believe should have been on the carbine when it left the factory.

U.S. Caliber .30 Carbine Models M1, M1A1 and M2

TABLE A Prime Contractor Prime Contractor Start End IBM 3,651,520 4,009,999 Inland 1 5 11 999,999 2,912,520 3,212,519 4,879,526 5,549,821 6,219,689 6,449,868 6,629,884 7,234,883 7,369,661 8,069,661 National Postal Meter 1,450,000 1,549,999 1,937,520 1,982,519 4,075,010 4,432,099 ...as Commercial Controls (1) 001 239 Quality Hardware 1,550,000 1,662,519 1,875,040 1,937,519 4,432,100 4,532,099 4,632,100 4,879,525 Rock-Ola 1,662,520 1,762,519 4,532,100 4,632,099 6,071,189 6,099,688 6,199,689 6,219,688 Saginaw (S.G.) 3,250,020 3,651,519 5,834,619 6,071,188 Saginaw (S'G')/Irwin-Pedersen 1,762,520 1,875,039 3,212,520 3,250,019 Standard Products 1,982,520 2,352,519 Underwood 1,350,000 1,449,999 2,352,520 2,912,519 4,010,000 4,074,999 6,099,689 6,199,688 Winchester 6 10 1,000,000 1,349,999 4,075,000 4,075,009 5,549,922 5,834,618 6,449,884 6,629,883 7,234,884 7,369,660

TABLE B Numerical Order Start End Prime Contractor Notes 1 5 Inland Toolroom Models (2) 6 10 Winchester Toolroom Models (2) 11 99 Inland Engineering (3) & Experimental (4) 100 999,999 Inland (see Tables C, E, F) 1,000,000 1,349,999 Winchester 1,350,000 1,449,999 Underwood 1,450,000 1,549,999 National Postal Meter 1,550,000 1,662,519 Quality Hardware 1,662,520 1,762,519 Rock-Ola 1,762,520 1,875,039 Irwin-Pedersen/Saginaw (S'G') (see Table G) 1,875,040 1,937,519 Quality Hardware 1,937,520 1,982,519 National Postal Meter 1,982,520 2,352,519 Standard Products 2,352,520 2,912,519 Underwood (see Tables C, D, E) 2,912,520 3,212,519 Inland (see Table C) 3,212,520 3,250,019 Irwin-Pedersen/Saginaw (S'G') (see Table G) 3,250,020 3,651,519 Saginaw (S.G.) (see Table G) 3,651,520 4,009,999 IBM (see Tables C, E, F) 4,010,000 4,074,999 Underwood 4,075,000 4,075,009 Winchester Winchester gift guns 4,075,010 4,432,099 National Postal Meter (see Table C) 4,432,100 4,532,099 Quality Hardware (UN-QUALITY) (see Table C) 4,532,100 4,632,099 Rock-Ola 4,632,100 4,879,525 Quality Hardware 4,879,526 5,549,821 Inland 5,549,822 5,549,921 not assigned 5,549,922 5,834,618 Winchester (see Tables D, F) 5,834,619 6,071,188 Saginaw (S.G.) 6,071,189 6,099,688 Rock-Ola 6,099,689 6,199,688 Underwood 6,199,689 6,219,688 Rock-Ola 6,219,689 6,449,883 Inland 6,449,884 6,629,883 Winchester 6,629,884 7,234,883 Inland Model M1 & Model M2 7,234,884 7,369,660 Winchester Model M1 & Model M2 7,369,661 8,069,661 Inland Model M2 higher s/n's (post WWII) (see Table I)

(1) leftover carbines offered to Ordnance after a company name change and completion of the NPM contract (2) Toolroom Models: Pre-production carbines to test and finalize drawings for mass production (3) Engineering Models: Pilot models made from Engineering Drawings (4) Experimental Models: alternate designs experimenting with ways to reduce the time and cost of production

Notice

Tables C - F

Documents found in the past have identified several prime contractors who assigned subsets of their serial numbers to their subcontractor(s). Data collected over the years has sometimes conflicted with the information in these documents. There are a variety of reasons things may have been changed or simply ignored. Rather than assume the documents were followed to the letter, the serial numbers in tables C-F are presented with the lowest and highest reported to date. We would like to encourage you to share information you may have that will help reconstruct what was actually done versus planned. If you choose to do so please contact us using the forum.

TABLE C Subcontracted Receivers (also see Table E)

Lowest	Highest	Prime Contractor	Code	Subcontractor	Notes
700,126	709,449	Inland	SI	Saginaw S.G., Saginaw, MI	(also see Table E)
707,298	938,380	Inland	SG	Saginaw S.G., Saginaw, MI	(also see Table E)
940,600X	950,919X	Inland	SG	Saginaw S.G., Saginaw, MI	(also see Table F)
2,352,521	2,400,080	Underwood	T	Intertype Corp.	(also see Table D)
2,452,638	2,491,453	Underwood	W	Universal Windings	(also see Table D)
2,572,558	2,601,955	Underwood	S	United Shoe Machine
2,625,041	2,682,871	Underwood	B	Singer Mfg	(also see Table D)
3,152,529	3,199,190	Inland	SG	Saginaw S.G., Saginaw, MI
3,835,477	3,907,689	IBM	AO	Auto-Ordnance	s/n's intermixed w/IBM s/n's (also see Table E & F)
4,325,227	4,387,735	National Postal Peter	U	Union Switch & Signal	the U is different than Underwood ·U·
4,432,255	4,466,225	Quality Hardware	UN-QUALITY	Union Switch & Signal

TABLE D Leftover Receivers used by Winchester

Underwood had receivers in various stages of completion left over when their contract ended. These receivers were purchased by Winchester. What followed was not always consistent and sometimes varied. The information that follows has been reconstructed from the data collected so far. It is not unusual to find a receiver that doesn't fit these criteria. The focus at Winchester was meeting production quotas during a time of high demand.

- Underwood receivers that had not yet been hardened: Winchester removed the Underwood name and serial number, then replaced them with the Winchester name and serial number.

- Receivers that retained the Underwood name: Winchester sometimes lined out the Underwood name, sometimes not.

Winchester added the letters W A or A W to the bevel of the receiver. - If the receiver had an Underwood subcontractor code, the subtractor code was left in place between the W A or A W. - One or both of the letters of the W A or A W code may be difficult to see. Some have been reported with only one of the two letters or in combination with an Underwood subcontractor code. - The significance of the letter A is unclear.

Lowest	Highest	Info	Code
1,244,697	1,290,339	Underwood name removed, Winchester name & s/n	A W
2,38x,xxx	2,404,928	Underwood name not lined out, Underwood s/n	WTA
2,485,125	2,491,867	Underwood name not lined out, Underwood s/n	WwA
5,759,1xx	5,801,924	Winchester name, Winchester s/n	T
5,814,798	5,820,062	Underwood name removed, Winchester name & s/n	A W
6,461,479	6,482,225	Underwood name lined out, Winchester s/n	A W, W A
6,473,811	?	Underwood name lined out, Winchester s/n	No Code
6,497,153	6,614,551	Underwood name lined out, Winchester s/n	B, BA, ABW, BW

TABLE E Transferred Receivers

Ordnance required the name of the prime contractor to be defaced by a single narrow horizontal line. The
identification mark of the receiving facility was to be added at the rear of the serial number.

Serial numbered receivers transferred were not restricted to a certain block of serial numbers. Some were sequential but many were not.

Lowest	Highest	Info	Code
126,794	127,006	Inland s/n'd receivers sent to National Postal Meter	N
438,xxx	590,828	Inland s/n'd receivers sent to Rockola	Rockola
496,xxx	634,161	Inland s/n'd receivers sent to Underwood	·U·
702,607	?	Inland s/n'd receivers from SI subcontract sent to Underwood	·U·
724,318	751,395	Inland s/n'd receivers from SG subcontract sent to Underwood	·U·
1,765,761	1,769,771	Irwin Pedersen s/n'd receivers sent to Underwood	·U·
2,743,286	2,770,326	Underwood s/n'd receivers sent to National Postal Meter	N
3,842,177	3,846,371	IBM s/n'd receivers from AO subcontract sent to National Postal Meter	N
4,049,244	?	Underwood s/n'd receivers sent to National Postal Meter	N

TABLE F Serial Numbers Duplicated (including use of X Suffix)

Prime contractors and/or subcontractors sometimes ran over their assigned serial number block and into a block assigned to
another prime contractor and/or subcontractor, creating duplicate serial numbers. Ordnance dealt with this by directing
an X be added after the serial number of the receiver that exceeded the assigned block if duplicates were found.

There is insufficient data to determine if every serial number between the lows and highs was duplicated or if it was random.
It is assumed some were sequential but possibly not all. More data submissions are needed to help determine any patterns.

Lowest	Highest	Manufacturer	Code	Details
940,600X	950,919X	Saginaw subcontract for Inland	X at end of s/n	Duplication of Inland s/n's
3,651,550	3,651,898	SG	?	Duplication of IBM s/n's
3,835,477-X	3,907,689-X	IBM	no identifying markings	IBM duplicated some of s/n's they assigned to AO
4,800,004	4,801,447	Quality Hardware	X below s/n	Possible duplication of their own s/n's
5,550,040-X	5,550,285-X	Inland	-X below s/n	Overrun into unassigned s/n block & Winchester s/n's
5,550,148	5,812,437	Winchester	D below s/n	Significance unknown
5,557,074-X	5,557,996-X	Inland	-X below s/n	Machine error duplicating Winchester s/n's

TABLE G Irwin-Pedersen, Grand Rapids, & Saginaw

None of the carbines produced by Irwin-Pedersen (IP) were accepted by Ordnance. Saginaw Steering Gear in nearby Saginaw, MI was already engaged in the preparation for the manufacture of carbines along with providing subcontracted receivers for Inland. The Irwin-Pedersen contracts were terminated by Ordnance. An Ordnance supplement to the Saginaw Steering Gear (SG) contract turned over carbine production at the Grand Rapids facility (S'G') to Saginaw Steering Gear. Irwin-Pedersen Numbers Reassigned to Saginaw at Grand Rapids Grand Rapids manufactured their own receivers as well as using viable IP marked and serialized receivers they had acquired in the takeover. Serial numbers IP had not yet used were used by S'G'. As were serial numbers from IP receivers that were scrapped

Serial Number Range		S/N Block Reassigned to	Markings on Receivers	Notes
1,762,520	1,875,039	Saginaw Grand Rapids	Irwin-Pedersen or Saginaw S'G'	names are intermixed
3,212,520	3,250,019	Saginaw Grand Rapids	Irwin-Pedersen or Saginaw S'G'	names are intermixed

Auto Ordnance M1 Carbine Serial Numbers

Saginaw Receivers with SG Subcontractor Markings Receivers produced at the Saginaw plant under subcontract to Inland initially had the SI receiver code on the left side of the receiver below the wood line. The receiver code was soon changed to SG. Receivers with the SG receiver code were intended for use by Inland though they were also used by Saginaw. The serial numbers and manufacturer names identify who actually used the receiver.

Serial Number Range		S/N Block Assigned to	Markings on Receivers	Notes
3,250,020	3,651,519	Saginaw	SG	SG on left side of some receivers, not all

Saginaw SG Markings on Receivers with Grand Rapids Serial Numbers Among the last 1000 serial numbers of a block assigned to the Grand Rapids plant, receivers manufactured in Saginaw with SG markings have been reported mixed in with S'G' marked receivers manufactured in Grand Rapids.

Serial Number Range		S/N Block Assigned to	Markings on Receivers	Notes
3,249,020	3,250,019	Grand Rapids	S'G', some SG	possibly as many as 1000 SG receivers

SG and S'G' Mix of Receivers and Serial Numbers The data submitted for this serial number range is insufficient to reconstruct what was done by which of the two facilities with each others receivers. The data on these receivers, serial numbers, and prime contractor names is an ongoing research project that needs your help. Serial Number Range S/N Block Assigned to 3,541,000 3,651,519 Saginaw Saginaw receivers with Saginaw serial numbers have been reported with S'G' markings. At least one document has been found that indicates Saginaw received Ordnance authorization to sent an unknown quantity of receivers to Grand Rapids. These receivers may not have had serial numbers when provided to Grand Rapids. The Grand Rapids facility stopped carbine production on 01 Jan 1944 but continued to make receivers and trigger housings which were sent to the Saginaw Plant for assembly. Assistance Request If you own one of these carbines and would like to assist with the reconstruction of this history, we have a short survey on our forum (with instructions) for you to submit by CLICKING HERE.

TABLE H Inland Manufacturing Engineering & Presentation Gift Serial Numbers (not government issue)

Letter prefixes X through XD were initially allocated by Inland for carbines intended for internal use only. The letters were followed by numbers (i.e. XA27, XA62, XD14). XA through XD was assigned for use by their Engineering Section on carbines built for testing and evaluation by their engineers. The quantity of carbines used by their Engineering Section varied so the numbers with each prefix also varied. Inland later decided to present carbines as gifts to Inland employees, subcontractors, suppliers, members of the military or government, and others to show appreciation for their assistance and cooperation with Inlands war effort. The serial numbers allocated to these carbines were as follows.

Start Serial Number End Serial Number X1 X100 XA1 XA100 XB1 XB100* XC1 XC100 XD1 XD100 XE1 XE100 XF1 XF100 XG1 XG100 * XB271 is a documented exception

This resulted in an unknown number of 'presentation' carbines possibly having the same serial number as the earlier Engineering carbines. The carbines used for this purpose were not from inventory submitted to or accepted by the government. Many were constructed using whatever parts were available. Examples being outdated parts and prototype parts that had accumulated throughout the various departments within Inland over the years of production. This included a few of the previous Engineering carbines no longer needed. Carbines that have one of these serial numbers may be an Engineering prototype, a 'presentation' carbine, or both. They are a specialty that requires each be assessed individually to determine its historical significance. They should not be altered or fired. Doing so may alter their historical value. Assistance Available Should you own one of these carbines we may have additional information on your carbine that is beyond the scope of this website. We can be contacted at the following e-mail address.

TABLE I Carbines with a Serial Number above 8 million

Post WWII, the Office of the Chief of Ordnance (OCO) assigned replacement numbers to armories, arsenals, and depots for carbines having damaged or obliterated serial numbers. Numbers were issued sequentially, beginning where Ordnance had left off with serial number blocks assigned during WWII. The letter X preceding the serial number designated it as a replacement. The new serial number was hand stamped on top of the receiver behind the rear sight, in the vicinity of the prior serial number.

Quantity	Start	End	Assigned to:	Date/Notes
WWII
-	7,369,661	8,099,661	Inland	assigned block - M2's
-	8,069,662	8,084,811	Winchester	assigned block - M3's - not used
Post WWII - Assigned by Office of the Chief of Ordnance - Documents unclear if X added
9	8,084,812	8,084,820	'Mr. Thompson', Field Services	04 Mar 1949
1	8,084,821	National Guard Bureau	date unk
1	8,084,822	Raritan Arsenal	14 Feb 1950
Post WWII - Assigned by Office of the Chief of Ordnance - X Prefix
3	X8,084,823	X8,084,825	Raritan Arsenal	18 Feb 1950
1	X8,084,826	Missouri National Guard	17 Jul 1950
1	X8,084,827	Florida National Guard	04 Apr 1951
25	X8,084,828	X8,084,852	Rock Island Arsenal	15 Jun 1951
1	X8,084,853	California National Guard	date unk
1	X8,084,854	Mt. Ranier Ordnance Depot	18 Sep 1951
1	X8,084,855	Raritan Arsenal	28 Nov 1951
25	X8,084,856	X8,084,880	Mt. Ranier Ordnance Depot	10 Dec 1951
200	X8,084,881	X8,085,080	Rock Island Arsenal	30 Jan 1952
20	X8,085,081	X8,085,100	not reported	18 Feb 1952
2	X8,085,101	X8,085,102	Raritan Arsenal	14 Sep 1953
1	X8,085,103	National Guard (no State indicated)	15 Jan 1954
1	X8,085,104	Sampson AFB	17 Aug 1954

The addition of the serial number on the top of the receiver forward of the rear sight indicates
the serial number behind the rear sight was obscured by an adjustable rear sight.

Inland	Winchester
4 Digits: 0001- 0835 5 Digits: 00001-00900	5 Digits: 01701-07545

Inland	Winchester
6 Digits: 000001-unknown (also used standard s/n's)	used standard s/n's

Auto Ordnance Serial Number Dates

Serial Number stamped Twice

If an adjustable rear sight obscured the serial number, Ordnance personnel were authorized
to also stamp the number on top of the receiver between the rear sight and bolt.

Other Letters

Should you have questions, assistance is available on our Discussion Forum.

The Discussion Forum also serves as a reference desk for the more advanced material that could easily overwhelm a website and is often subject to opinions that may vary
due to a lack of original documentation. A number of researchers and authors are present on the forums, helping others and seeking information for various research projects.

© Copyright 2012- The Carbine Collectors Club. All Rights Reserved.

By Frank Iannamico
Frank Iannamico has recently finished what is the definitive work on the Military Thompsons. “American Thunder: The Military Thompson Submachineguns” is available from Small Arms Review, we published it. He has also submitted a series of articles on the Identification of the Thompsons- and he thinks it will be a two part series. Hahahahahaha! We plan to chain him to his computer and get a whole series on this. These first two parts cover identifying the Thompsons you are apt to run across in the normal course of being a collector. There were 1919 Thompsons, 1923 Thompsons, 9mm and 30 caliber Thompsons, and all sorts of others, which are well covered in Tracie Hill’s book “Thompson: The American Legend”. In the meantime, please enjoy this series- I have to go email Frank about what his next one will be. Better yet, if you have Thompson articles you want to see, email me at sareview@aol.com, and I will bug Frank about it- Dan
This is part one of a two part series of articles on how to identify a Thompson Submachine by the markings on their receivers.
There are four basic categories of the 1921 and 1928 Thompson Submachine Guns; all were marked with the Auto-Ordnance Corporation name regardless of who manufactured them.
Thompsons manufactured by Colt’s Patent Fire Arms Manufacturing Company from 1921 to 1922. Production Models; 1921A, 1921AC, 1927 Semi-automatic, 1928 “Navy”.
Thompsons manufactured by the Savage Arms Corporation from 1940 to 1944. Models; 1928, U.S. 1928A1.
Thompsons manufactured by the Auto-Ordnance Corporation, Bridgeport, Connecticut from 1941 to 1944. Model; U.S. 1928A1.
Thompsons manufactured by the Auto-Ordnance Corporation, West Hurley, New York from 1975 to 1986. Model 1928.
PART I
The Colt and Savage 1921-1928 Model.
This article is a basic guide on how to identify a particular model and manufacturer of a Thompson Submachine Gun. More detailed information on each variation of these guns will be forthcoming in future articles.
The Thompson Submachine Gun is probably one of the most recognized submachine guns in the world. Even non-enthusiasts are familiar the Thompson. There is however, a lot of confusion on actual manufacturers and other aspects of the guns, especially when the Auto-Ordnance name is mentioned. Adding to the confusion are the more recently manufactured full-auto Thompson guns that were produced by the modern Auto-Ordnance Corporation formerly of West Hurley, New York.
Former U.S. Army Ordnance officer John T. Thompson formed the original Auto-Ordnance Corporation in 1916 with the intent of developing a semi-automatic military rifle dubbed the Auto-Rifle. Work soon shifted to a one-man portable .45 ACP caliber machine gun, that was to become the famous Thompson Submachine Gun. While the famous submachine gun bears Thompson’s name, the weapon was actually designed by Oscar Payne, an employee of Auto-Ordnance. Auto-Ordnance’s Chief engineer, Theodore Eickoff, with the help of his staff, perfected the design into a working weapon. However, without the foresight and fortitude of John Thompson the gun would never have been conceived. The original Auto-Ordnance Corporation was simply a research and development organization, which had no manufacturing facilitates. The Warner and Swasey Company of Cleveland, Ohio manufactured all of the prototype weapons for the Auto-Ordnance Corporation. After a final production model was ready, the manufacture of the weapon was subcontracted out to Colt.
The Colt Thompsons
The very first production Thompsons were manufactured by Colt’s Patent Fire Arms Company of Hartford, Connecticut under contract with Auto-Ordnance from 1921 to 1922. These guns all have the Auto-Ordnance Corporation name and their New York, USA address roll-marked on the right side of the receiver. Also marked on the right side of the receiver near the center, are the patent dates of the Thompson. Early Colt guns have nine patent dates, while later manufacture Colt guns have three additional 1922 dates added. The left rear side of the receiver was marked to announce that Colt’s Patent Fire Arms Co. manufactured the gun, and the .45 ACP caliber of the gun (spelled calibre). The top of the receiver was marked with Auto-Ordnance’s “bullet” logo. Very early manufacture Colt guns under serial number 5000 used a bullet with the name AUT-ORD-CO inside of it. Subsequent receivers were marked with a narrower .30 caliber style bullet, which is often mistaken for an arrowhead, with the name THOMPSON inside of it written in script lettering.
The model designation MODEL OF 1921 was marked on the left side at the center of the receiver. The serial number of the Colt Thompsons was stamped on the left side of the receiver as well as on the trigger frame. Some Colt guns had an additional serial number marked on the receiver under the grip mount. Most Colt guns were inspected and stamped with the initials JHB of John H. Barrett. There were several variations of the Colt Thompson, but all were made from existing 1921 Models, conceived after the initial production run had ended. The “new” models were introduced by Auto-Ordnance in an attempt to generate new interest and increase sales of the guns.
Because of lagging sales Auto-Ordnance introduced a semi-automatic-only version in 1927. The 1927 model was made by the conversion of existing 1921 model guns. Aptly named as the Model of 1927, there were some internal modifications made to eliminate the weapon’s full-automatic operation. The original SUBMACHINE GUN markings were neatly milled off of the gun and replaced with THOMPSON SEMI-AUTOMATIC CARBINE. The words “full auto” were also milled off of the selector markings.
Another variation was the 1928 Navy Model. These were 1921 models that were internally modified to lower the cyclic rate. The Navy guns had the numeral 1 in 1921 over stamped with an 8, and the nomenclature “US NAVY” added above the model designation. The “US NAVY” stamp was usually struck noticeably lighter than the other markings on the receiver. Many of the US NAVY marked guns were used for commercial sales.
World War II
In 1939 the Auto-Ordnance Corporation, now under the control of Russell Maguire, contracted with the Savage Arms Company of Utica, New York to manufacture the Model of 1928 “Like the one illustrated in Auto-Ordnance’s 1936 catalog”. Auto-Ordnance received its first contracts for the Thompson from France and Great Britain. These countries purchased the weapons directly from Auto-Ordnance with no U.S. government involvement. The first Savage manufactured Thompsons were delivered in April of 1940.
The Savage Model of 1928
The contract between Auto-Ordnance and Savage specifically stated that Savage was not to place their name on the Thompsons they manufactured. The early Savage manufactured receivers had Auto-Ordnance’s corporate name and New York, NY address roll-marked on the right side at the rear of the receiver, while the weapon’s thirteen patent numbers* were located at the center of the receiver’s right side. After A-O moved their operation to Connecticut the marking dies were changed to their new Bridgeport address. The Bridgeport address was located at the center of the receiver’s right side, and the patent numbers were moved to the rear of the right side. To date, the highest serial number 1928 model documented with Auto-Ordnance’s New York address has been S-75115, while the lowest serial number 1928 model recorded with a Bridgeport address has been S-83818. Somewhere in-between those two serial numbers the dies were changed to reflect the Bridgeport address of Auto-Ordnance. In addition to the receiver number, a duplicate serial number was stamped on the trigger frame.
*Note; Colt guns had patent dates stamped on them, while Savage and Auto-Ordnance manufactured guns had patent numbers on their receivers. All of the 1921 Colt and all of the WWII 1928 and 1928A1 Thompsons had the word CALIBER spelled as CALIBRE on the left side of the receiver.
Most of the early Savage manufactured 1928 guns were sold to the British. These guns can be identified by a small British proof mark on the receiver and/or barrel. The receiver’s left side was marked “Model of 1928”. There were no U.S. acceptance or inspector’s stamps applied to the British contract guns.
The Savage Commercial
There has been a lot of mystery and confusion regarding the so-called Savage Commercial Thompson. These guns were being made at the same time as the guns for the British contract and were used for the occasional police sales made by Auto-Ordnance in the 1940’s. They are the same as the British contract guns, except there are no British (or U.S. military) acceptance or proof marks on their barrels or receivers. Most of these guns had New York addresses on them, but there have been a few documented with a Bridgeport address.
The Savage U.S. Model of 1928 A1
The United States made the decision to provide military aid to the countries at war with the Axis powers, by passing the Lend Lease Act in March of 1941. Under this program the U.S. government was to take over all foreign contracts with U.S. companies supplying material for the war. One of the provisions of the Lend Lease Act was that all weapons provided under the program be U.S. marked. All future Thompsons would now be marked as U.S. Model of 1928 A1. Thompsons destined for Lend Lease that had already been built, had the U.S. marks added by hand stamping. After the United States entered the war Thompsons were procured by the thousands for U.S. forces, and these guns were virtually the same as the Lend Lease guns.
Early Savage 1928A1 Thompsons that were U.S. marked were stamped US without a period following each letter. The Savage receiver marking dies were changed at approximately the mid S-200,000 serial number range. The changes included the letters U.S. with a period after each letter, and all of the letters of the model designation were more uniform. Use of the new dies resulted in sharp, deeper struck markings than are seen on guns that were marked with the earlier dies.
After the U.S. government began procuring Thompsons, they implemented their own inspection procedures. All weapons were gauged and inspected to insure the guns met the government’s criteria. All Thompsons that passed the inspection process were stamped with the Ordnance Department’s “flaming bomb” stamp. The Ordnance Department’s “flaming bomb” acceptance stamp was superceded by a new Ordnance “crossed cannon” acceptance mark late in October 1942.
The U.S. Army Ordnance officer officially in charge of the entire weapon inspection process was designated as the Army Inspector of Ordnance or AIO. When an AIO’s initials were stamped on a firearm, it indicated that the weapon was accepted as U.S. property by the AIO on behalf of the U.S. Government. The Savage Thompsons were made in the Ordnance Department’s Rochester, NY district. The Army Inspector of Ordnance for the Rochester District were Lt. Colonel Ray L. Bowlin using the stamp, RLB from 1940, until 1942, and Colonel Frank J. Atwood from 1942 until 1945 using the stamp, FJA. Colonel Atwood assumed the position of AIO of the Rochester District near the end of the M1928A1 model production run. His initials are generally only seen on the M1 and M1A1 models.
All Savage manufacture receivers had the Auto-Ordnance “bullet logo” roll marked on the top. A few Savage 1928 models were marked “TOMMY GUN” on the top right of their receivers. This was done to fulfill a legal requirement to register the phrase as a trademark. All Savage manufactured Thompson receivers and frames were marked the GEG initials of Auto-Ordnance’s civilian inspector George E. Goll.
Next; Identifying the Auto-Ordnance, Bridgeport and the Auto-Ordnance, West Hurley Thompsons.

This article first appeared in Small Arms Review V5N2 (November 2001) and was posted online on April 4, 2014

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